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Glenn Brigaldino's avatar

Ja liebe Tugba, danke ! Ich hoffe nur deine Mutter meint nicht dich !

Etwas lockerer in den letzten paar Wochen, komme leider etwas verspätet nur zum Antworten.

Es ist schon sehr schwer fuer junge Leute (auch meine Kinder) sich in dieser stressvollen Welt zurecht zu finden. Es geht aber voran, wenn auch scheibchenweise.

Tugba, bin mir stets unsicher ob Substack messages privat oder allgemein lesbar sind. Wenn Du damit OK wärst, WhatsApp wäre besser finde ich. Auch wenn ich vermutlich Mitte Mai in D bin. Lass hören,

tschüss,

Glenn

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Glenn Brigaldino's avatar

Ja liebe Tugba, danke ! Ich hoffe nur deine Mutter meint nicht dich !

Etwas lockerer in den letzten paar Wochen, komme leider etwas verspätet nur zum Antworten.

Es ist schon sehr schwer fuer junge Leute (auch meine Kinder) sich in dieser stressvollen Welt zurecht zu finden. Es geht aber voran, wenn auch scheibchenweise.

Tugba, bin mir stets unsicher ob Substack messages privat oder allgemein lesbar sind. Wenn Du damit OK wärst, WhatsApp wäre besser finde ich. Auch wenn ich vermutlich Mitte Mai in D bin. Lass hören,

tschüss,

Glenn

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Vari McKechnie's avatar

Thank you for writing this, Tuğba. I often think the ‘gracefully’ part of ‘aging gracefully’ is synonymous with ‘acceptably’.

In my early 40s also, I’m excited about ageing DISgracefully / UNacceptably.

Too long have we lived trying to be pleasing and appeasing to, well, everyone!

I’ve gone from looking good for my age: “What?! You’re 35?!?! Noooooo but you look SOOO young!!!” to looking not just the age I am, but, relative to other woman who have chosen to invest in graceful, much older than I am!

I’m careful not to use the phrases like, “Oh you haven’t aged a day” with people I haven’t seen in a while. It’s common and seems harmless but fuels this idea that aging visibly is a failure on our part.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Ohh, Vari, I totally forgot about that one—haha! "You haven’t aged a day." It’s crazy how so many expressions in our language come with built-in expectations, don’t you think? Language shapes our world, after all.

Thank you so much for reading and sharing your story! I really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to support my work.

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Glenn Brigaldino's avatar

Freut mich von dir zu hören Tugba, antworte etwas verspätet, eine etwas nervige. aufzehrende Zeit zuhause. Kids bleiben halt auch als Erwachsene, Kids. Dein letzter Beitrag, ich muss zugeben, gefiel mir auch wenn ich derzeit mich nicht voll konzentriere und den Artikel nicht 100%ig las, aber erinnert mich an den Pretenders Song "Sense of Purpose" :) Bessere Stimmung hier bei mir sicher nächstes Mal, bis dann, alles Gute, Glenn

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Ja, ich hatte auch eine sehr busy Zeit, deshalb komme ich erst jetzt zum Antworten. Danke dir, lieber Glenn!

Ich musste an die Worte meiner Mutter denken—sie sagt immer: Je älter die Kinder werden, desto größer werden auch ihre Probleme. Also “erwachsen” heißt nicht unbedingt kein Stress mit Kindern 😅

Ich hoffe, du kannst bald ein bisschen aufatmen. Danke für deine Unterstützung! Ich freue mich immer, wenn ich eine Notification von dir bekomme. Happy Friday 😊

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Sascha Camilli's avatar

Spot on. I think "ageing gracefully" just stands for "not falling for vain, unsightly cosmetic procedures...but also not looking OLD". So, basically it wants women (because it's only women) to naturally look like they are 32 forever. Which, of course, isn't possible for anyone. It reminds me of when I lived in Italy and there was this concept of "ragazza acqua e sapone", which means "a soap-and-water girl", used to describe someone who didn't wear a lot of makeup but looked 100% flawless regardless. Basically a woman who was miraculously born looking like the unrealistic beauty ideal. I think ageing gracefully is the same concept - it's not realistic and unfairly targets women.

I love the concept of a full life to deter fear of death. I also think of my dear friend who passed away from cancer at 41 and remember that getting older is a privilege, always.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Aww, Sascha. Weirdly enough, I saw a whole thread on Reddit the other day where someone was getting angry at people for saying that aging is graceful. I actually got so angry because it truly is.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Wow 41 so young 😢

Wow, that Italian expression perfectly sums up the dilemma of aging gracefully. I’m pretty sure I’ll have more to say on this as I continue to age, but let’s see. Thank you so much for reading and supporting my work!

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Glenn Brigaldino's avatar

In a way, we are all diminished by the pressures and burdens unleashed on those who are not affluent but those who control the system. of course it is in their interest to have ever more folks head into therapies, feel alienated and lost. Makes us easier to control and we are also told we "are not normal". This post I found on poetic outlaws is a timely piece of reality check.

https://poeticoutlaws.substack.com/p/what-we-call-normal

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Thank you so much, Glenn, for taking the time to read! I’ll check out the post you shared. I completely agree with what you’ve written.

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Julia's avatar

Hi Tuĝba, I love the traditional part of your grandmother's death. To be together and take time to feel and also take care for the body in respect to her soul. That seems like giving death a part into life. And I really miss that attitude in our society!

I love your writing and it reminds me to a French woman and her podcast , where she was calling out to not put so much stress around aging, followed by a list of minimum to do's that felt really like "hard to get done". It's good to read many perspectives and she was doing good this way. Just, some didn't even appear in her version!

I see more varieties of standarts that we might call "normal" or minimum.

So meanwhile I am using less products as I'm aging and my skin loves that 😁🌹

Im not fighting against my body.

I enjoy the rests it gives me and the tiredness of useless repetitions. I love that my body feels joy on a walk even in sad episodes.

I'm relatively healthy for my age, still alive 🙏☺️

I love kundalini Yoga.

And especially cat cow helps with infections and fire breaths with throat issues.

To give acceptance for this journey isn't always feeling or looking gracefully and that also grows more acceptance & compassion for others 🫶🌱

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Thank you very much for reading, Julia! I was discussing this topic with a friend after my post, and we talked about finding the balance between growing old and not giving up. It's a difficult concept to explain. In fact, my friend and I recorded a podcast episode on this very topic. It's our second episode. Anyway, I'll share it with you all once it's ready.

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Julia's avatar

There is a podcast too? Looking forward to your share 🌹

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Yesss, the first episode is in my latest post 🥰 I mean the link to the podcast. Hope you have a wonderful week! Thank you, Julia!

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Barbs Honeycutt's avatar

Reading this, especially the part where you talk about one's life symphony, made me consider how much that symphony would influence others' lives too. We rarely get to see our legacy, partially because, well, we'll be kinda on the other side by then, but by being a migrant I somewhat have the privilege of witnessing the impact my life had on those 'I've left behind' and everytime I return to my hometown it's almost like I am back from the dead and get all the heartfelt conversations about what matters in life that I never had when I lived there.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Thank you for reading Barbs! And it’s something I never considered. I need to ponder a bit more on this

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Hilary Mosberg's avatar

Looks like aging cosmetic surgically to me lol

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

🤣 exactly but in the name of grace! Thank you for reading Hilary 🫶🏼

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Naomi J Spratt's avatar

An interesting piece. It absolutely does feel like we are being policed. If you try to look younger than you are vs not trying to do so. Either way, you’re are judged.

That Aristotle quote is harsh, but possibly true.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Thank you for reading, Naomi! It's true that no matter what you do or don't do, it never seems to be right. I hope you had a good start to the new year 🫶🏼

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Tim Dawkins's avatar

What a powerful visual of your great-grandmother washing her daughter's body as a last act of love and care in death. Mothers are mothers forever, no matter how old. As someone who struggles with the way we keep death and grieving at an arm's length here in the US, I truly appreciate how other cultures go all in. On another note, as my hair turns grayer and grayer approaching 45, I'm also keenly aware of how much easier I have it as a man in a society that holds us to very different standards than women neverywhere when it comes to aging.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Hi Tim, thanks so much for reading! I'm not sure if you noticed, but another reader commented that she encountered a similar ritual in Italy. It's fascinating how death is handled differently in some countries. I have a Ghanaian friend, and when someone dies, they have a party to celebrate the person's life. They dance and laugh.

I agree to some extent that society is harder on women when it comes to aging, but I also believe this is changing. I have many male friends who feel the pressure, and have already gotten Botox and hair implants.

I hope your time over the holidays in Italy was wonderful 🫶🏼

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Caitlin's avatar

Love this! Your intro on ageing gracefully instantly reminded me of the always amazing 'Be A Lady, They Said' piece. It gives me chills every time I watch it. I've just started reading Seneca's 'On the shortness of life: Life is long if you know how to use it' and can totally relate to your thinking about the common yet absurdity of fearing death over a lack of living life. If that makes sense? I find myself more afraid of the Bryan Johnson types and his Don't Die obsession tbh.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Oh no! I had forgotten about that video. 😢 Thanks for reminding me! Yes, yes, yes! I just watched it again, and it made me so sad, but that's exactly what I'm talking about. Never enough!

I follow Bryan on YouTube, just out of curiosity. But he was exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote this post. I have friends around me who aren't quite as extreme, but they still see him as an inspiration. Watching his videos makes me sad. Of course, it's good to take care of our health, but he’s obsessed. I think he looks sick and not even healthy.

Thank you Caitlin 🫶🏼 Love your profile photo! Have a wonderful weekend.

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Caitlin's avatar

Noooo honestly the Bryan Johnson thing is really sad. An interesting experiment I suppose, if I’m trying to be curious about it. But I struggle with the ‘death is just a problem to be solved’ ideology. All things must come to an end.

Awwww you’re too kind!! 🤗 Hope you’re having a gorgeous weekend too x

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

I still need to watch the Netflix documentary! I don't judge if it makes him happy, but I think it backfires a bit because it makes people see it even more like a problem that needs to be fixed like you pointed out!

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Javier Tamborrel's avatar

Lovely read! If you’re ever curious, there’s a few relevant ideas in “How to Age” by Anne Karpf (The School of Life). The message that stuck with me is also Aristotelian: “to live is to age, and to age is to live” + “vitality can’t be timetabled.”

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

I love The School of Life! I have some of their books, but I will definitely get "How to Age." Have you read any of their other books?

This quote is so powerful: "To live is to age, and to age is to live." It's a simple sentence, but it has so much depth. Thank you for sharing!

Thank you, Javier, for reading. Have a wonderful weekend 🫶🏼

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Javier Tamborrel's avatar

A small confession, Tuğba: I’ve read all of them! I met Alain ten years ago and quickly became a superfan. The recent “Calm in 40 Images” is a new favorite: I just wrote about it here! ⇢ https://www.theinneract.com/p/worry-isnt-worth-it

What about you? Do you have any top picks? 📒🌟

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Wow, that's amazing! I can't remember which one I read, as I have so many more on my Kindle. I don't have the most recent one, but I love it. Just checked it out. I'll get it! I even took a course with The School of Life a couple of years ago in the Berlin space 🥰 Have you ever done a course with them?

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Javier Tamborrel's avatar

That's great! I love the Berlin "campus." I've only done the "What is Philosophy For?" in-person, but during the pandemic I took a bunch of their virtual workshops. I think their five-day retreats is what's left on my bucket list - maybe one day we'll cross paths there! 🤓💡

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

🫶🏼 Just catching up on old messages, haha! Wow, I didn’t know they were doing retreats. I haven’t checked out their website in so long—I'll do it this week to see what they offer. Hope you have a wonderful week!

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Diana Strinati Baur's avatar

Tugba, I'm giving a program based on the principle that aging should be our chance to become more and more ourselves; that on the day we leave it would be a wonderful thing if, on that day, we can be completely at peace that we've lived life as our true selves.

The sense of aging while trying to either fight the process or denying that it is happening is, in my mind, the exact opposite of this beautiful life stage.

I had a similar experience with the death of a friend in Italy. He remained in his home for a full day after his death and we visited him there - after having spent time every day with him for three months. It soothed my soul to have that experience, which I'd never had before.

Much love, dear one.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

I saw that you announced your new direction last year. How wonderful! I will definitely check it out. That sounds so beautiful, “to be completely at peace”.

I didn't realize until I wrote this post how special it was to be able to experience this tradition. It's interesting that this tradition is practiced in other countries as well. I believe many traditions, especially in smaller towns around the Mediterranean, have remained intact. In Turkey, it’s also done, mainly in smaller towns.

Unfortunately, when my granddad died, I was traveling in Australia and there was no way for me to make it back in time.

Thanks for reading, Diana. Have a wonderful weekend 🫶🏼

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Donna Druchunas's avatar

Good question. Aging gracefully to me means that you accept aging with grace. You don’t try to be a graceful old lady. Two different meanings of graceful. I am gauging this based on my grandmother’s meaning.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Very wise grandmother. I like that distinction, Donna! Thank you for reading. Have a wonderful weekend 🫶🏼

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Lori Ayre's avatar

As I was reading this, I found myself saying 'but, but, but, but what about the fear of becoming irrelevant and unseen'? That is more frightening than death!

I think by the time people, especially women, are actually looking at death, they have moved past the phase of irrelevance and have moved to acceptance. But until that acceptance phase - the old crone phase - many fight to stay in a phase of life they don't belong. They are not 10, 20, 30 years younger and the compulsion to try to make your face appear decades younger than the rest of you is a sad commentary on society.

If there are wrinkles and saggy chins - and you are a woman - you are out of the game. And that applies to most every game. People don't want to become irrelevant. And being alive and irrelevant is even more frightening than the unknown.

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Julia's avatar

Before I turned 50 I had a very serious health issue that drained my energy. I recognized afterwards that I was invisible for all the ones I didn't find interesting in these days, though it felt irritating. As if my shield was broken and I am a ghost 🥲

But, than I started to recognize that women started to smile at me, like they never did before 🫠🌹 I love that. And I am not invisible for everyone. There are lots of people, whom I built up a solid and friendly relationship at the grocery ect.

I just feel like dating got so weird over the past 10-20 years. Everyone is talking about,than who is still originally flirting??? I miss that on the streets 🤭

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Aww thank you for sharing Julia 🥰 I love the "but women started smiling at me"

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Lori, I'm glad you wrote this. It's something I also discussed with my therapist after going down a rabbit hole on the Reddit thread "dating after 40." Many women wrote about how they felt invisible to the world after turning 40, which struck a chord with me and caused a lot of fear, especially as a single woman wondering if I was headed down the same path.

I absolutely agree that becoming invisible is likely an intermediate step, but when I discussed this with my therapist, it ultimately boiled down to a fear of death. The fear that I haven't lived a good enough life, and that with each passing year, my life grows shorter.

Thank you for reading 💚

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Glenn Brigaldino's avatar

Hey guys, chins up, smile, so much is still ahead of you !! And I say that with quite a few years on you !!

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Yaaay good to see you in the comments. All smiles now. Thank you Glenn!

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Lori Ayre's avatar

Thanks for responding. Maybe my reaction is a sign that more therapy is needed!

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

🫶🏼

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Julia Thorne's avatar

I think there's also an element of it that women are judged by our ability to bear children - we're considered our most beautiful between our teens and our thirties, generally speaking. We have to *look* like we're fertile, even if we're well beyond that age, just to be deemed worthy.

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

I agree, Julia! That's why I struggled so much when I turned 39 and decided to freeze my eggs out of confusion. I'm not sure if you read my post "I Googled Midlife Crisis." Anyway, now that time has passed, I've had more time to reflect. I desperately wanted to extend my fertility out of fear that I might not be deemed worthy. At the time, I didn't realize this, though.

I also think that over the years, the media and even sometimes male friends have instilled this fear in us that we are only worthy if we are fertile. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well, but you put it so well in your message. Thank you for that 🫶🏼

Have a wonderful weekend!

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Julia Thorne's avatar

It's a weird perspective, isn't it. I feel 'past it' in my 40s, yet people becoming leaders of countries in their 40s are often considered young for the job. Perhaps we need a 'matriarch movement' or something - make women something n the second half of their lives something to look up to 😊

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Tuğba Avci's avatar

Do you read Katherine’s Substack? I love this post https://katharineestyphd.substack.com/p/whats-too-old

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Julia Thorne's avatar

No, I haven't. I'll have a look 😊

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